[20:18:52] Kinjion : That's ok, you can just read what we talked about while you were away Razz
[20:19:10] @ vash : mhmm Smile
[20:19:47] @ vash : lets carry on Smile
[20:19:49] Kinjion : It's ok, your question fits well, because Luke's role as a historian was very important to the audience he was probably writing for
[20:20:09] @ vash : yes...i would imagine so
[20:20:20] Kinjion : You see, the Roman Empire would not have approved of a new religious sect
[20:21:01] @ vash : is that not why the followers of jesus were always persecuted?
[20:21:08] Kinjion : And so Luke's goal in writing his Gospel (and the Book of Acts, which Luke is also seen as the author of) was to prove that Christianity was NOT a new religious sect
[20:21:33] @ vash : wow...i did not know that
[20:22:26] @ vash : from my understanding...the romans were scared when jesus walked the earth...and that is why he was persecuted....they believed jesus was here to start something new...but yet was around already....correct?
[20:22:32] Kinjion : To get the Roman Empire to accept Christianity, Luke stressed the continuation of Judaism and Christianity
[20:22:35] Ladyfire : back, sorry about that and I'm caught up
[20:23:17] @ vash : welcome back
[20:23:23] Kinjion : Yes, that's correct. Christ was certainly making some very bold claims (especially the whole Son of God business Razz)
[20:23:30] Kinjion : wb
[20:23:46] @ vash : question
[20:23:50] Kinjion : Sure
[20:24:12] @ vash : then before jesus came and claimed he was the song of god...what did the romans believe...who was their messiag?(leader) sorry for spelling
[20:24:56] @ vash : son*
[20:25:08] Kinjion : Well, "the Romans" included many people at the time of Christ, and it generally meant the citizens of the Roman Empire
[20:25:32] Kinjion : Most of the Romans themselves were pagans, worshipping Zeus and all the others, even at the time of Christ
[20:26:12] @ vash : o yeah...they had other idols....kinda like in the geek methology
[20:26:25] Kinjion : In Israel, where Christ preached, there were also the Jews, who were looking forward to a Messiah, although they didn't know who he was, only what the Old Testament had to say about him
[20:26:53] Kinjion : Very much like the Greek mythology. The Romans weren't at all afraid of borrowing from other religions
[20:27:22] @ vash : but if the Jews were looking for a messiah....why did they prosecute Christ?...i can't realy wrap my head around that
[20:28:09] Kinjion : The Jews who persecuted Christ persecuted him because he didn't think that he was the Messiah
[20:28:28] @ vash : o
[20:28:44] Kinjion : They had their expectations of a civil leader who would free them from the rule of the Romans, and Christ didn't fit that role in their view
[20:29:32] @ vash : thats very well said Kinjion...that just added another level of my understanding of why the Jews themselves had second thoughts and opinion of Christ...
[20:29:43] Kinjion : To illustrate this view, recall the many times the disciples asked Jesus when he would found his kingdom, such as in Acts 1:6
[20:30:02] Kinjion : "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
[20:30:03] @ vash : yes
[20:30:19] @ vash : so
[20:30:32] Kinjion : Christ constantly reminded them that his kingdom was not of this world, but that was a very strange concept at the time
[20:30:37] @ vash : that Kingdom...is actually meaning the civilization of the Jews, between the romans
[20:31:44] Kinjion : Yes, the Jews expected the Messiah to be the one who would restore the physical Kingdom of Israel, which had been taken over by Alexander the Great and others, and was under the Roman Empire at the time of Christ
[20:32:09] @ vash : alrighty
[20:32:27] Kinjion : Many of them didn't understand what Christ was talking about when he talked about a heavenly kingdom, until the Holy Spirit came
[20:32:31] Kinjion : anyways...
[20:33:20] Ladyfire : I'm here and reading and learning and I am sorry I don't have much to input into this.
[20:33:50] @ vash : sorry....continue with what u have planned Smile...i was looking forward to it for the past two days Very Happy
[20:34:11] Kinjion : As I mentioned, the Gospel of Luke is strongly tied to the Hebrew traditions, since Luke was emphasizing that Christianity was not a "new" religion, rather it was the fulfillment of the Hebrew religion (which the Romans tolerated)
[20:34:32] @ vash : yeah...
[20:35:08] Kinjion : It is interesting to note that one of the first names we see in Luke's Gospel is Zechariah in verse 5
[20:35:15] Kinjion : of chapter 1
[20:35:44] @ vash : how does he play a significant role?
[20:35:55] @ vash : and his wife?
[20:36:06] Kinjion : Zechariah means God remembers, and so it was appropriate that Salvation should begin with God remembering his people
[20:36:26] Kinjion : They are the parents of John the Baptist
[20:36:47] @ vash : ooo
[20:37:08] Kinjion : The last time God's people REALLY needed saving was when it was just Noah and his family on the ark
[20:37:33] Kinjion : God also "remembered" his people then
[20:37:46] Ladyfire : what is the relation of Elizabeth and Mary?
[20:37:58] @ vash : aww yes...Noah...tahts definitely a totally new story
[20:38:07] @ vash : good question Lisa
[20:38:09] Kinjion : And I am confident that Zechariah's name was planned by God to remind of us of the saving flood
[20:38:54] @ vash : yes...would think so too Kinion
[20:38:55] Kinjion : Genesis 8:1 starts with God "remembering" Noah, if you want to look it up
[20:39:20] Kinjion : Elizabeth and Mary were cousins, although it's hard to tell how closely related they actually were
[20:39:22] @ vash : looking
[20:39:48] Ladyfire : thank you
[20:39:59] Kinjion : The Hebrews placed a BIG emphasis on geneology and family history, so they could have even been fourth cousins, or so.
[20:40:37] @ vash : wow...thats something i never even made a connection too
[20:40:59] Kinjion : Anyways, the story of Elizabeth and Zechariah is tied to the story of Abraham and Sarah
[20:41:10] @ vash : ok
[20:42:10] Kinjion : Zechariah and Abraham are both told that they will have a son
[20:42:52] Kinjion : They are both given the message by an angel of the LORD, and they are both older couples, so old that the thought of them being able to have children comes as a big surprize
[20:43:00] Kinjion : It is also a great blessing
[20:43:17] @ vash : yes definitely
[20:43:23] @ vash : a virgin child?
[20:43:34] Kinjion : And not just in the sense that children are always blessings, because the Hebrews considered it a source of shame to be childless
[20:43:39] Ladyfire : it is a blessing
[20:44:20] Kinjion : presumably not a virgin child, although I suppose it might have been, but I haven't seen evidence for it
[20:44:38] Ladyfire : do we know why it was a source of shame to be childless - what is the basis behind that?
[20:45:29] Kinjion : This removal of shame from the family caused Elizabeth to say "so has the LORD done for me at a time when he has seen fit to take away my disgrace beofre others." (Lk 1:25)
[20:46:05] Kinjion : The Hebrews, as I mentioned, placed a big emphasis on geneology. All of the Hebrews were divided up into the twelve tribes of Israel
[20:46:09] @ vash : so elizabeth was blessed to have the child?
[20:46:23] Kinjion : Those tribes were subdivided into clans, and those clans into houses
[20:46:39] Kinjion : most certainly she was, but I'll get back to that Razz
[20:46:50] @ vash : oki Smile
[20:47:26] Kinjion : Unlike in modern society, if you were a Hebrew in ancient times, you didn't just know your last name, you also knew which tribe, house, and clan you came from
[20:47:48] Kinjion : If you wanted to know something of your family history, you could look it up in the Old Testament
[20:48:04] Kinjion : But this tie with history carried a big responsibility
[20:48:18] Kinjion : Because if you didn't have any descendents, your househould would die off
[20:48:25] Kinjion : And be gone forever
[20:49:01] Kinjion : At one point, one of the members of the Tribe of Benjamin committed a terrible deed
[20:49:05] @ vash : well yes..that makes much sense
[20:49:13] @ vash : what deed?
[20:49:22] Kinjion : The other tribes warred against the tribe of Benjamin, and almost destroyed them
[20:49:52] Kinjion : But then they remembered that that would mean that they had eradicated one of the 12 tribes that God had given the Promised Land to
[20:49:58] Kinjion : On moment, I'll look it up
[20:50:04] Kinjion : It's in the Book of Judges
[20:50:19] Angelic_Plagues : O.o
[20:50:23] @ vash : welcome hannah
[20:50:32] Angelic_Plagues : heylo
[20:50:35] Ladyfire : hi Hannah, welcome!!
[20:50:40] Kinjion : Hello
[20:51:02] Angelic_Plagues : hey all ((:
[20:51:11] @ vash : quickly catch up...we're getting to the good parts now Smile
[20:51:25] Kinjion : It's in Judges 19:22 through the end
[20:51:27] Angelic_Plagues : did you guys like the devotion i posted? okie
[20:51:51] @ vash : yes yes...loved it Smile
[20:51:59] Kinjion : It's too long for me to go into much here, but it was rather gruesome
[20:52:05] Ladyfire : it was fantastic
[20:52:18] Kinjion : Unfortunately, I haven't seen it yet, but I'll look it up after this
[20:52:30] Kinjion : Good questions, by the way
[20:52:43] Angelic_Plagues : (:
[20:52:54] Kinjion : Anyway, as I was saying Elizabeth was very blessed to have a child
[20:52:58] Angelic_Plagues : anyways. i can't follow what you guys were saying.
[20:53:14] Kinjion : lol
[20:53:23] Kinjion : do you not have a log of what has been said so far?
[20:53:39] Kinjion : Maybe we'll post this once we're done
[20:53:49] @ vash : yes
[20:53:55] @ vash : i will keep an archive on the forum
[20:54:01] @ vash : i was meaning to tell u that Kinjion
[20:54:12] Kinjion : Elizabeth was blessed, but her story is followed immediately by the story of her cousin, Mary
[20:54:14] @ vash : if i miss a study, just copy and paste the study in a new topic on the forum Smile
[20:54:46] Angelic_Plagues : mmmk i almost fell asleep in class. besides that, we were learning about drugs in hope and i found out that james did some
[20:54:51] Angelic_Plagues : and i was like WHAT
[20:55:02] @ vash : not good
[20:55:03] Kinjion : Looking back, we know that Mary received the greatest honor ever given to a human being, being allowed to participate in God's Incarnation
[20:55:03] @ vash : k
[20:55:05] @ vash : hannah
[20:55:13] @ vash : let kinion finish with his study
[20:55:26] @ vash : yes yes ofcourse
[20:55:33] Kinjion : lol
[20:55:38] @ vash : and was the only one to give birth as a virgin....correct?
[20:55:46] Kinjion : yes
[20:56:11] Kinjion : But keeping in mind Mary's situation at the time, she was in a difficult position
[20:56:27] @ vash : yes yes...i do remember that
[20:56:36] @ vash : she had to go away from home if i remember
[20:56:45] Kinjion : Ulike Elizabeth, Mary's pregnancy would have brought her shame, because she wasn't married, and she was pregnant
[20:57:13] @ vash : and that is the reason for her leaving her family behind right?
[20:57:30] Kinjion : Further, the Child was not Joseph's, and so (at the time she heard the angels message) she would have been aware that she had some explaining to do to her future husband
[20:57:44] Kinjion : not quite
[20:58:03] @ vash : o ok...i must have it abit mixed up then
[20:58:16] Kinjion : Joseph also had a dream, telling him what was up
[20:58:21] @ vash : Joseph wasn't married to Marry yet was he?
[20:58:35] Kinjion : It's recounted in Matthew 2:13-15
[20:58:47] Kinjion : Not yet, they were betrothed though
[20:59:00] @ vash : yes yes...i remember reading that
[20:59:16] Kinjion : Hebrew society at the time meant that it was probably an arranged marriage, and so it wasn't quite like a modern-day engagement
[21:00:01] Kinjion : There was a very strong expectation that they would be married, which is why at one point it is mentioned that Joseph "decided to divorce her quietly"
[21:00:03] @ vash : mhmm
[21:00:19] Kinjion : Mattew 1:19-20
[21:00:56] Kinjion : Anyways, the Holy Family isn't driven into Egypt simply because Jesus appears to have been the result of an out-of-wedlock affair
[21:01:01] Ladyfire : i did not know that
[21:01:21] @ vash : o
[21:01:23] @ vash : i did know that
[21:01:28] @ vash : tell me if i am wrong
[21:01:34] Kinjion : Oh, speaking of which, it should be remembered that Joseph himself took a big risk in going ahead with the marriage
[21:01:38] @ vash : but was it because of taxes or a money issue?
[21:02:04] Kinjion : Since Mary was pregnant and he didn't divorce her, it looked like it had been his child
[21:02:30] Kinjion : so he was exposing himself to shame as well, because that would have been the common thought
[21:02:41] Kinjion : no, it was because of King Herod
[21:02:57] @ vash : what was it he wanted?
[21:03:02] Kinjion : lol, this study is turning more and more to Matthew... oh well Razz
[21:03:29] @ vash : its all good Smile...we have endless studies Smile
[21:03:32] Kinjion : Herod had heard the stories of the Messiah, and he also knew that the Jews were expecting an earthly ruler
[21:04:05] Kinjion : Herod had a problem with this because HE was the current governor in Israel
[21:04:23] @ vash : yes...a young one at that....am i right
[21:04:28] Kinjion : He thought that this Messiah-Warrior would lead the Jews to rebellion and he would lose his power
[21:04:46] Kinjion : I'm not sure
[21:05:18] Kinjion : Anyways, when the Magi came and told Herod of the "new ruler born in Israel", Herod decided to kill the Child Jesus
[21:05:30] @ vash : ooo
[21:05:32] @ vash : the plague
[21:05:37] @ vash : he killed all the new borns
[21:06:00] Kinjion : He ordered all the boys in Bethlehem two years old and under to be massacred
[21:06:12] Kinjion : Which is why the Holy Family fled
[21:06:31] Kinjion : On a final note, it is significant that they fled into Egypt
[21:06:32] @ vash : yes...now that brings back my readings awhile ago
[21:06:42] @ vash : how so?
[21:06:47] Kinjion : Egypt was the traditional place of refuge for the Hebrew people
[21:07:10] Kinjion : After all, the Hebrews took refuge in Egypt at the time of Joseph
[21:07:28] @ vash : i didn't know that
[21:07:45] Kinjion : During the famine that was going on throughout the whole world, that Joseph predicted through the Pharoah's dream
[21:08:28] Kinjion : check out Genesis 41 through 47
[21:09:14] @ vash : ok
[21:09:32] Kinjion : So, the Holy Family fleeing to Egypt is connected with the people of Israel fleeing to Egypt in Jacob's time
[21:09:46] Kinjion : and it also fulfilled yet another of the prophecies
[21:09:48] @ vash : o...the story of Jacob
[21:09:53] @ vash : i have that on dvd
[21:10:29] Kinjion : "Out of Egypt I called my son" (Matt. 2:15-17)
[21:10:36] Kinjion : Ok, I'd better go
[21:10:54] @ vash : alrighty
[21:10:56] Kinjion : I hope you enjoyed this Bible Study, and I'll see you next Wednesday Smile
[21:11:09] @ vash : yes definitely Smile
[21:11:12] Ladyfire : thank you so much Kinjion - fantastic job
[21:11:12] @ vash : i learned a lot Smile
[21:11:23] @ vash : i second that Lisa Smile
[21:11:56] @ vash : Thank you all Smile...that was the best hour of my week so far Smile
[21:12:37] Ladyfire : This is a great learning tool, thank you for starting a bible study in a friendly atmospher. Great job team
[21:13:49] @ vash : Smile
[21:13:59] @ vash : Well we'll see you all on the forum during the week Smile
[21:14:05] @ vash : and until next wednessday Smile
[21:14:16] @ vash : GodBless! Good night all!!
[21:14:31] Ladyfire : Good night and God Bless
[21:14:57] @ vash : Smile
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